Hot Water Music, at their three-decade milestone as a band, have achieved something that only a handful of punk bands have ever accomplished: retaining all of their original members.
That’s not to say that it hasn’t been a grind to keep guitarist and vocalist Chuck Ragan, guitarist and vocalist Chris Wollard, bassist Jason Black, and drummer George Relbelo together. Since Hot Water Music’s inception in 1994, the band has gone through a number of changes, even while maintaining that original lineup, including two hiatuses, one of them due to Ragan leaving the band in 2006. Additionally, one member, Chris Wollard, stepped back from touring, with another member, Chris Cresswell of The Flatliners, added in 2017 to help fill that gap. Now on their second album as a quintet, Vows—which is out Friday from Equal Vision Records—finds the newly re-energized group working as a more seamless unit.
Chuck Ragan took a moment to sit down with us and talk about Vows and the history of this legendary punk band.
Hot Water Music are celebrating their 30th anniversary as a band. Most bands celebrate those sorts of things by re-releasing old material or doing a special tour. You chose to put out a new album. Is there any particular reason you wanted to do that to celebrate your anniversary?
Yeah, we’ve always been happy to have the opportunity to write and record new music. On the last record, on Feel the Void, we had what we thought was a great recipe. (Producer) Brian McTernan came back into the mix; we hadn’t worked with him in years, and it was a really special experience, and we wanted to do it again. And knowing that this year was going to be such a special and important milestone for the band we thought yeah, let’s go for it.
I don’t believe you can ever really force creativity. You can try and, sometimes, you can find some things that work here and there but, for the most part, we always feel like it needs to happen genuinely and organically. Nowadays, with Cresswell in the group and Wollard writing as well, you have five individuals who all create; we all write, and there’s a constant influx of material, so there was no shortage of material. We just needed to focus and bring Brian into the mix as well as Ryan Williams—who engineered (and) who we’ve made a lot of records with—and focus on a task at hand. We threw (together) all the material that we had and, as soon as we started doing that, we got really excited and just said “Yeah, let’s go for it. Let’s make a new record.”
The new album has several guest appearances. You have members of City and Color, Turnstile, Thrice, Calling Hours, and The Interrupters. I don’t think you’ve done anything like that since No Division in 1999, if I remember correctly.
Yeah, it’s been a while.
Why did you want to make your album collaborative like that?
Well, the coolest part about it to me is none of that was even really a thought or even an effort until our record was finished, or at least our work was finalized. In other words, we were done with our parts, with our playing and our sections, and were completely confident, felt great about the record, and Brian McTernan, as a producer, started throwing out some ideas (such as that) it would be super cool to have a backup vocal here or there that maybe was different than what we already have.
Then that got the creative juices flowing. And everybody had some ideas, but what was cool about it to me is there was no set agenda or goal, we just hollered at a bunch of friends and some of them came back and were able to do it. It just ended up being a really beautiful thing that were very, very honored and thankful to be a part of.
Particularly on the songs where you credit an entire band like Thrice or The Interrupters, how does that work? Did you double up on instruments? Or did they just provide vocals?
A little bit of both. Kevin and Aimee from The Interrupters, Kevin played some keys, and they both sang on “Much Love.” Most of it was either vocals or playing. I would defer that question to Brian McTernan; he was at the helm of producing the record, and he’s got a great ear for that stuff. He’s really good at picking out little harmonies or little nuances that a lot of people seem to miss. He’ll explain it, and you’ll kind of get it, but then he’ll have someone play it or sing it or what not, and it’s like a light bulb; like, “Oh, wow, I never thought of that.”
Since this is such a milestone album for you, did you approach it differently in terms of how you how you wrote it and recorded it?
Writing wasn’t all that much different. Recording it, I feel like this was probably the most prepared that all of us were going into the studio. The majority of the vocals and lyrics and everything were already done. It’s pretty common for things to change or shift or switch a little bit when you’re in there, when you get in the box. You may have had an idea that you thought was great in your brain, or when you’re sitting here completely by yourself, and when you go and try to get that energy flowing and make it feel alive and energetic and you unleash whatever you got on your chest, sometimes, whatever was in your head doesn’t come out of your mouth the same. So you’re like, “Oh, wait, that doesn’t work like it did in my in my mind; let’s shift it a little bit.”
But, for the most part, going into it, I feel like we had a good plan; we had a great template. We did a lot of demo work. It was a lot of moving pieces because we’re all over the place. McTernan is up in Maryland; three of the gents are down in Florida, I live in Northern California; Cresswell’s in Toronto, and Ryan Williams, in the studio, he’s in Florida as well. So everybody was so spread out; it took a lot of traveling. I had been to Florida; Brian had been down to Florida; some of the guys have been up to see him in Maryland; Cresswell and Brian flew out to Montana when I was working out there. We stayed in the cabin out there for a week and worked on songs out in Montana. It was wild, all the moving pieces, and then we would come together and slowly carve out these demos until structures started feeling right. There (weren’t) a ton of kinks in the line, and we felt like we’re ready.
Looking back on the history of the band and all the different studio experiences, there have been many times where we’d gone into the studio to record 12 songs, and four of them were at that point; we had another eight that were like, “Okay, we got a lot of work to do on these.” And then you’re scrambling under pressure, which can sometimes be a good thing to have that fire under your ass. But it’s a completely different vibe when (we’re) going in, and we already know what we’re recording. Now we just need to perform our best and have fun doing it. (It’s) a lot less stress; I’ll say that much.
So Hot Water Music have always had the dual threat of having two vocalists with you and Chris Wollard. For this album and the previous one, you’ve had three vocalists with the addition of Chris Cresswell. How has that changed the dynamic for the band?
I don’t think it’s changed the dynamic much other than adding another voice. But we love it. I can’t imagine singing everything; this would have been a completely different experience the past three decades. I feel like it alleviates a lot of pressure on each of us. Singing songs in public or writing a record and having your lyrics down printed—in a way carved in stone—it can be some pressure, which is why we’ve always felt it best to really not try to fit in any type of mold or try to be a band that we’re not. (We) just try to be genuine and write lyrics as if we were telling a story to a friend or keeping a log in a journal entry.
Lyric writing has always been a form of therapy to me since I was a kid, but at the same time, having mates in the band that take on a song here and there, it’s relieving when we play shows live and there’s songs where I just get to sit back and play a guitar and watch my buddies do what they do and not have to worry about singing or revisiting whatever it is that moved me to write whatever that song is about. I can just enjoy the music.
Why did you choose the album title Vows? I noticed that there’s no there’s no title track of any sort for that.
Right. In the process of writing this record, recording it, there (were) so many emotions and memories and nostalgic conversations happening around the campfire and around the studio. We had loads of different titles that we were bouncing around, and we were looking through lyrics and everything, and Vows seemed to resonate to us in a way.
For one, we consider ourselves truly one of the lucky bands that have reached a milestone like this. This is it’s huge; it’s heavy. Thirty years is a long time to be doing anything, but to be doing something for 30 years with other individuals who change and evolve and grow in their own way. The fact that we’ve been able to carry on together and make this work for this long is massive. And we wouldn’t have ever been able to do this without the help from friends, family, the music community, people like yourself that’s taking time out of your day that even care enough to ask that. You have just as much to do with this as we do. And we respect that there are people all over this music community that are just as responsible for these 30 years as people that you see on a stage.
And, at the same time, we have friends all around us who’ve been doing this just as long as we have, who’ve sacrificed just as much for their passion for what they believe in for their music. Unfortunately, for some, it hasn’t worked out, or it hasn’t worked out the way that they had hoped. They may never have that opportunity to reach a 30-year milestone in a band. So we’re very humbled and honored to just be sitting in these chairs right now. We would never, ever have been able to do it without the support of our friends and our family in the music community. To us, the only reason that that support is there is because we have treated each other the way we’ve wanted to be treated ourselves. And we have, in many ways, vowed to each other. We have taken a stance in our own lives, in our own neighborhoods, communities, and we’ve committed to each other. And that’s why you and I are talking right now.
One of the things I find fascinating about Hot Water Music is that, in those 30 years, you’ve never lost a band member. You’ve had two hiatuses, and you’ve added a member, but you still have all the original lineup. Is there any secret to that longevity as a band?
Other than everything I just spoke about on the last question, maybe some luck. When we were in our early 20s, there were times where I couldn’t see some of us living past the age of 24 and 25. But communication, of course, just like any relationship. When we came together at a young age, we were so heavily bonded immediately, and that bond just grew from years and countless, countless hours together in tight spaces, sleeping on floors, sharing cans of beans, just everything that you would do if you grew up with a sibling. These guys are family to me. We’ve grown up as brothers; we love each other like brothers; we’ve fought like brothers from being verbally abusive to just physically beating the hell out of each other. It’s a lot better nowadays, but for many years, we were a highly dysfunctional family that did love each other but couldn’t stand the way each other sounded when we slept, or ate food, or all those things.
But over the years, looking back on it, I think our communication was absolutely horrible for the majority of the time this band has been together, and it’s only been probably the past decade that our communication has gotten so much better. To answer your question, honesty and communication, it’s so important. Think of some of the best friends that you have right now, and think of them doing something that you disagree with and going, “Okay, do I just keep my mouth shut and bottle it up and not say anything? Or do I speak my mind and at least get it off my chest and clear the air to get it out in the open?” It may not be pretty for a while, but it’s going to strengthen that bond. And it’s only going to grow that love and respect for each other if there’s communication and honesty.
What do you think have been the most significant changes for the band in those 30 years you’ve been together?
Well, obviously, Wollard stepping out of the mix of playing live was a massive change. If I were to go back even further than that, moving out of Florida was a huge change. Wow, going back even further than that, it would be Jason moving out of Florida. Jason moved out of Florida first; (he) moved around quite a bit. That changed the dynamic a little bit, but we were still so busy back then that we just didn’t practice or rehearse as much.
And then when I left (Florida) probably 20 years ago, that changed quite a bit. At the time I wanted out of the music business. I never wanted to stop playing music. I just didn’t want to chase anything. I didn’t want to be in a band. I wanted to play music; I wanted to write music; I just didn’t want to play the game, so to speak. And at the time—this is a very long winded story, so I’ll make it short—but at the time, it was a completely different dynamic that we were facing with management teams. It was, at the time, almost the pinnacle of the band so far. We had just fulfilled contracts with Epitaph, and we had a management team that was wanting to push us. I’ve always played on stage right, and Wollard was on stage left and, out of nowhere, they wanted me to get in the middle and take on a role of a lead singer. I didn’t care for that idea, and that shifted my whole way of thinking.
And, oddly enough, a lot of our songs and our lyrics about being true to yourself and being honest with yourself, living your heart, never following the norm, all of a sudden, the same lyrics and reasons that I started playing in this band in the first place were the same reasons that were telling me “Okay, this is done. It’s time to shut it down.” And, at the time, I told the guys “I don’t want to go on like this.” And that was a big shift; that was a big change. That ended up kind of getting the guys into The Draft. And I realized those guys are just going to carry on without me. I never really stopped playing music, I was just by myself. So that was all I had. I just started playing more acoustic, solo-type music, and that was a big shift. After a few years of that, we came back together and had our bit of a reunion, and that’s when we started communicating more, going back to that (earlier) question. That’s where communication started to come in better.
But then, shortly after that was when Wollard decided that he couldn’t travel anymore or play live or anything like that. And, at the time, it was a scary thing. None of us really understood exactly why at first. We came from an age where, at a young age, phrases like “mental health” or “panic disorder” or “anxiety,” that wasn’t even in our vocabulary. We didn’t know about these things, or, at least, we didn’t talk about these things. I remember as a young kid, and even early in this band, even though, looking back on it, those things definitely existed in our lives and in our community, it wasn’t as much talked about in our society, in our circles. You were either messed up or you weren’t. Or you’re messed up for a little while, and then you’re fine. A lot of it was just swept under the rug or just—not ignored—just not a lot of focus was put on that.
I look back on times that some of us were experiencing that stress and anxiety or panic attacks, and, at the time, I just thought somebody had too much to drink or too much smoke or was just being too dramatic. It’s like, “Get over it. We got to go.” Little did I know walls were caving in, and it took many years for us to understand that and respect that. This is a very real thing with people, and I think those are some big huge changes when we started realizing the (seriousness) of the situations and how important it is to not be harsh, to be helpful. It’s like, when your brother’s making a big deal because the guitar’s been left out in the rain and everything’s falling apart. It’s like, “Get over it. Let’s go.” Those were some big changes for sure.
Then going a little further ahead, Cresswell coming into the group, massive, massive change because, at that time, when Wollard stepped out, we had no idea what the future of this band was going to be. We were at times thinking, like, “Oh, I guess this is going to be it.” And we were still, then, thankful that we had had that many years of opportunity to do this to begin with. But when Creswell played that first show with us at Fest in Gainesville, October 2017, he just got up and he smashed it. And we got off stage, and we were all dumbfounded that he was able to get up there and have the salt and the gall to get up there at a headline spot at first, having never played with us and play eight or nine songs. And then the following night, he went back to his hotel room and learned a few more songs, and the following night we played a smaller club and he played the entire set with us.
And we got off stage, and I just grabbed him by the back of the neck, and I was like, “Hey, listen, we have no idea what’s happening with Wollard, but we love you. And if we’re to do anything that he’s not able to do, we would love to have you involved, as long as it’s cool with The Flatliners.” We’re all buds; we’re all friends; we respect each other’s bands. And we never in a million years would want to step on the toes or get in the way of other people’s agendas and bands, so it definitely had to be a mutual respect thing.
And then the next big shift was when Wollard, in a way, rejoined the camp, because Cresswell was then involved and, once they got together and there was this mutual respect and we had Wollard’s blessing—because we never would have done any of that if one of us disagreed with it. The only reason we carried on and Cresswell played with us (is because) Wollard agreed to it; he was cool with it. And we’re like, “Okay, well, we’ll keep it going” and the whole time hoping he would come back until we realized this this may be a permanent thing where he’ll write and he’ll record he’s just not going to travel, not going to play live shows.
Then the next big shift after that, to me, was when all five of us came together and started writing and working on music together. To me, recounting it all, even talking about it now, it feels like it all was meant to happen, that it’s all just happened organically and genuinely. I am so thankful and happy to be where I am now with this entire group, this whole family, just love where we’re at.
The album comes out on May 10. So what are the plans for the immediate future after it comes out?
We have a ton of dates lined up all the way into 2025 right now. Our scheduling is a bit of a nightmare because George plays in the Bouncing Souls. Cresswell is doing solo stuff now; he just released a great solo collection of songs (and he’s) playing in the Flatliners, I have my solo work, but more or less put it most of it on the backburner while Hot Water Music is doing this, and Wollard is always writing. So aligning our schedules can get crazy, because we’re basically trying to find little windows between all these full time projects and bands that are out working and doing the same thing that we’re doing. But right now we have a day off here, we’re on our way to Nottingham, we’re getting ready to shoot a video as soon as I get off the phone with you. And it’s wild. It’s really wild.
We have quite a lot of shows on the books that we’re excited to do, getting back to some places that we haven’t been in a long time. And we’re just absolutely thrilled to be sharing this record and sharing the songs. We’ve been playing a number of songs already, some of the new stuff, and just loving it, having a blast. We’re working on another video. For me, just getting through today, day by day, that’s my goal.
Is there anything else you wanted to plug or talk about?
Yeah, we covered a ton of stuff. Again, I’m incredibly grateful to just be a part of such a badass music community. And thank you for caring; thanks for doing what you do, and thanks for sharing news about people who are out there living a crazy life but sharing their passions with the world. It means a lot to us. It really does.
Vows is out Friday, and you can preorder it from Equal Vision Records. Follow Hot Water Music on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter for future updates.
Cover photo by Jesse Korman
